extremist views re religion (2 views) Subscribe   
  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/19/2001 5:00 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 26)  
 
  205.1  
 
In response to what transpired in NYC and Washington, DC ... and as an athesist, I find it difficult to distinguish between an extremist position that makes sense ... as oppossed to another that does not. 
I propose the following, either as a bumper sticker or a T shirt slogan, "Stamp out terrorism, replace religion with science." 

This should generate a few responses as there, of course, is only one correct or true belief, right? Yes, David, I'm back - I lump all people, you included, who think they have a corner on truth, in the same bucket. Of course, your views are the only true ones ... the other people are mistaken, there is only one God - your God, right? Everyone has the _only_ just God in their corner. Let's see the conservative religious groups talk their way out of this one. 

I stand by my quotation - There is only one true belief and that is the belief of the person to whom you are currently speaking. 

All the best, Dave Horne - The Netherlands 



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Edited 9/19/01 8:02:58 PM ET by DAVEHORNE711 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/19/2001 9:19 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (2 of 26)  
 
  205.2 in reply to 205.1  
 
David,

 

Normally I would be glad to welcome you back to the forum but I have just finished reading a previous post of yours to another posting where you were rude and insulting to the poster. Rude personal remarks are not appreciated on this forum. If you decide to continue to post in a rude manner you will not be around this forum for long.

 

My reply to your remark is that.

 

1)      Religion is not about killing. Christianity is about love and Charity

 

James 1:27 Pure (Christian) religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and the widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

2)      Politics is where anger, strife, debate, and even death reveal themselves. It is the realm of politics that drives a person to commit a terrorist act not religion and certainly not Christianity.

 

Therefore Dave, what you need to do is rid the world of Politics and politicians and then your world would be as you want it. Christianity is not the cause of Any problems that might annoy you.

 

As far as science being a substitute religion. Those who know science Acknowledge that science is the physical explanation for the Existence of God. So science actually confirms that the universe in it's order and control is created and exists in the realm of Gods control.

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/20/2001 1:01 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (3 of 26)  
 
  205.3 in reply to 205.2  
 
David, you have a tendency to stretch the truth. You said that I was rude and insulting in another post. 
You can discern all of that from - "Give me a break." 

All the best, Dave Horne 

 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/20/2001 5:17 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 26)  
 
  205.4 in reply to 205.2  
 
David, <Religion is not about killing. Christianity is about love and Charity> 
I suppose your interpetation of Matthew Chapter 10, Verse 34 will enlighten me. There are, of course, different versions of this - try the KJV. 

Dave Horne
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/20/2001 8:54 am  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (5 of 26)  
 
  205.5 in reply to 205.3  
 
Dave,

 

give me a break is Not the post I was referencing.

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/20/2001 9:24 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (6 of 26)  
 
  205.6 in reply to 205.5  
 
David, please give me the message number and if my post was rude and insulting, I will apologize. 
What is the message number you are referring to? 

Thanks, Dave Horne
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/20/2001 9:31 am  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (7 of 26)  
 
  205.7 in reply to 205.1  
 
Dave,

 

I appreciate your attitude to apologize. Your post was on the topic Terrorists attack America this morning The post was not addressed to me and I did deleted the post prior to the person reading it.

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   9/20/2001 9:54 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 26)  
 
  205.8 in reply to 205.7  
 
David, I glad to see that censorship is alive and well. It scares me that some Americans would prefer religious law to civil law, not you I'm sure. 
Feel free to tell me (and others) when you excercise your censorship authority. 

All the best, Dave Horne - The Netherlands
 
  
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  From:  el_natureboy   9/21/2001 1:29 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (9 of 26)  
 
  205.9 in reply to 205.1  
 
Dave, 
Why would you say >>"Stamp out terrorism, replace religion with science."<<? Are you not informed that religion imparts certain knowledge to us that science works to prove? 
Science can't prove god but neither can religion. God is one of the abstracts unprovable like love and hate, pretty and ugly, good and evil, right and wrong. People have accepted their existence because they accept the teachings of others who they consider to be in authority. What is love to one is hate to another, pretty to one is ugly to another, right to one is wrong to another, so god to one os devil to another. 

Science proves the tangable, religion reveals the cycles of existence, but so does myths, fantasy and science fiction. Should they also be eliminated. 

If you want an explaination of what happened on September 11, 2001 the Bible, Revelation 17:12-17 (KJV), is the best place to start. It is the beginning of the end for the United States of America which will end by her own nuclear weapons, per chapter 18's "feared smoke". 

Elijah 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/21/2001 6:27 pm  
To:  el_natureboy   (10 of 26)  
 
  205.10 in reply to 205.9  
 
Given the content of your post, why are you sighting the Bible as Authority for end time events?

 

I believe the Bible to be Authority, Because I believe God who knows everything Instructed certain men (prophets) to write the future down in the Bible.

 

Or is this an attempt at humor that I have missed?

 

Just wondering,

David





David A. Brown
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  From:  el_natureboy   9/24/2001 6:51 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (11 of 26)  
 
  205.11 in reply to 205.10  
 
David, 
The Bible, like the other writings I mentioned, are revelations from what man call god. They are written in metaphors, parables and alagories which anyone can interpret any way they want to. They often times consider them real facts, like Bible believers do the Bible, but they reveal certain truths when applied to the self-reproducing environment and man's anti-nature environment. 
I have a web site, http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm, which shows some of those interpretations under PROPHECY INTERPRETATIONS. You see, all of those writings, when interpreted properly, will agree in their message as I show there. It is for that reason it is written in Revelation "the books were opened". 

You will see on my site that I thought it would be a monitary power to bring the end to this country but now I see it will be terriorist. 

Elijah
 
  
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  From:  Tyriel   9/24/2001 1:59 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (12 of 26)  
 
  205.12 in reply to 205.10  
 
(Coronus) 
Oh, boy, we're back to that ol' Bible discussion. 

I can't believe that you are still clinging to the bible, even though it has been totally misinterpreted for a long, long time. 

So why...ah, forget it. This is like trying to convince Conservatives to pay the same amoung of taxes as poor people. 

~ Burning with Desire and looking for answers, 
Yours eternally, 
Tyriel 

 
  
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  From:  el_natureboy   9/27/2001 10:22 am  
To:  Tyriel unread  (13 of 26)  
 
  205.13 in reply to 205.12  
 
Tyriel, 
Wisdom is found everywhere. To use the Bible, no matter haw many times it has been misinterpreted, one will find wisdom. That is true of almost every writing since most have been ispired by the innerself, we call god. With that being true, why not use all writings and search for an interpretation for them which agree and reveal the truth about man on earth? 
Elijah
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/27/2001 11:58 am  
To:  el_natureboy   (14 of 26)  
 
  205.14 in reply to 205.13  
 
What is the Bible lacking about the Truth of God and Mankind?

 

I think the Bible is quite clear, concise and complete about the Truth of mankind.

 

The Bible is the Original source of information regarding God, people, heaven, earth,  sin, hell, angels, daemons etc.. Other sources are only counterfeits and copycats of the Bible. It is Best to stick with the original and the source, the Bible.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  el_natureboy   9/28/2001 9:01 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (15 of 26)  
 
  205.15 in reply to 205.14  
 
David, 
How nieve can you be??? In the Bible you find Egypt being a nation prior to Moses' getting the revelation during his 40 year treck in the wilderness out of Egypt. Don't you think Egyptians were sent messengers telling them about man's error in their way of living? 
You never did what Isaiah 1:18 told you, did you? If you had you would realize that the nation of Israel was not the first nation sent messengers. Israel is called Jews="chosen" only because the 2 messiah (Exodus 4:6-8, Exodus 17:1-7 and Numbers 20:1-10, the early rains and latter rains, and the Rod and Branch messiahs of Isaiah 11:1-12) will come through them. They are not the true Israel="endurers" (Matthew 24:13) nor chosen (Matthew 24:22), they are a prophetic type of them. 

The Bible is only the revelation of the end of civilization under the rulership of whites, since Jacob is symbolic of Whites and Esau is sybolic of Blacks. Being that, it only gives glimps of the real plight of man. It does give us metaphors of how man became the distorted being we have become. It began with an intentional teaching of a child how to become territorial. That child persuaded a girl to live territorial with him. That caused each man to become masculine or feminine in nature rather than having them both in each gender (Adam story Gen. 2-3). 

From that we have a metaphor of sibling rivery (Gen. 4). After that we have man dividing into 4 color ethnics (Yellow=Norah, one son Red, one son Black and one son white). Then we have the 12 tribes of Jacob representing 12 more divisions of man and Revelation gives us 12 more division multiplied by the first 12 for 144. When we see how each man is fractured into those 150 different natures then we can see that to become whole (Holy) we have to develope each of thse natures, not letting any one exceed the other, within each one of us. 

That is what the Bible is really telling us about beside how and under what conditions civilization will end. 

Read BIBLE UNSEALED at http://prop1.org/protest/elijah/nature.htm 

Elijah
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/28/2001 9:27 am  
To:  el_natureboy   (16 of 26)  
 
  205.16 in reply to 205.15  
 
God created mankind in His (Spiritual) image, therefore we are (spiritual) beings and not merely physical beings therefore color, race, gender are irrelevant to God, except that to His Glory God created people physically different. We are spiritual in our fallen sinful condition when we acknowledge the Resurrection Life of Jesus and become Born Again, Spiritually with Gods Spirit indwelling with our spirit the Born again believer is now a Spiritual person.

 

150 ways to improve mankind sounds rather dramatic. I prefer the One way of the Bible the New Covenant of Jesus, where Death on the Cross Killed Sin and Resurrection Life give New Life, Guaranteed in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Rune (Rune__)   9/29/2001 3:55 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (17 of 26)  
 
  205.17 in reply to 205.2  
 
>>Christianity is about love and Charity 
Luke 22:35-28
 
  
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  From:  Fionn Seamus (Christboy121)   9/29/2001 4:31 pm  
To:  el_natureboy   (18 of 26)  
 
  205.18 in reply to 205.13  
 
Hmmm...not only can the bible be an authority on things, but other books can too! I hadn't realized that! 
(^_^) 

Thank you!
 
  
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  From:  Fionn Seamus (Christboy121)   9/29/2001 4:34 pm  
To:  Rune (Rune__)   (19 of 26)  
 
  205.19 in reply to 205.17  
 
Exactly, Rune! Love should flow through us all! I think that God is the essence of theose two traits, exactly! There is no reason in the world for despair, for we are made in his likeness, never to fail! We are already perfect, it just takes time to realize that we are the only ones in our own world, in this unlimited consiousness, that the mind is the most powerful tool from all of it, and that God is in the middle of it all! 
Love. Peace. Prosperity. 
~Fionn Seamus 

(je vous remerciez, Rune, mon bon copain.)
 
  
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   From:  Rune (Rune__)   9/29/2001 5:05 pm  
To:  Fionn Seamus (Christboy121) unread  (20 of 26)  
 
  205.20 in reply to 205.19  
 
Luke 22:36 
But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. 

Seems like a pascifistic passage there. You don't have a weapon, sell stuff til you can buy one.
 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    9/29/2001 5:46 pm  
To:  Rune (Rune__)   (21 of 26)  
 
  205.21 in reply to 205.20  
 
The verse is instructing Christians to buy a Bible not a physical sword. The Bible is often called a sword because the Bible cuts with instruction, i.e. cutting away wrong from right. This is also what the physical circumcision in the Old Testament is an example of. The  cutting away circumcision of flesh and then the living in the spirit with God by the word of God.

 

Ephesians 6:17 .. and the sword of the Spirit which is the word (Bible) of God.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  el_natureboy   10/1/2001 12:13 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (22 of 26)  
 
  205.22 in reply to 205.16  
 
David, 
I believe you missed again because our image of god is our physical form, our likeness of god is the dominion [ability to do with more ability than] this creation. It was during the Noah flood that all except a few animals and 2 man [one of each gender] of the four color ethnics remained in the ark [law and ability (Dan. 4:33)] of god while all others were drowned into a state of ignorance. [Read Gen. 6:1-6 and see how all man were as Jesus demonstrated before the flood.] Once we are "born again" we will began to obtain all of the abilities of Jesus and more (John 14:12) as we become nomads (Gen. 1:29, Matt. 28:19&20 and John 3:8 KJV) again. At that time we are spritual beings which our ears have not heard, our eyes have not seen nor entered our minds [hearts] to began to comprehend what is in store for us. Those 150 personalities is what we spiritual beings will have developed within us in order to be able to do what Jesus did. 
Peace, 
Elijah 



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Edited 10/1/2001 3:34:25 PM ET by EL_NATUREBOY 
  
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Message 23 of 26 was Deleted    



  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/1/2001 3:40 pm  
To:  ALL   (24 of 26)  
 
  205.24 in reply to 205.22  
 
I think what the previous poster is attempting to explain is the Dyanetics by L. Ron Hubbard.

 

In Dyanetics a person can improve through 150 phases, by of course paying to learn the secret to each phase.

 

Anyhow, Not to be confused with Christianity, One problem - Sin, One solution -death/Cross, One Savior - Jesus, One Resurrection - everlasting life!

 

Blessings!!





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   10/1/2001 8:23 pm  
To:  Dave Horne (DaveHorne711)   (25 of 26)  
 
  205.25 in reply to 205.1  
 
Ahhhhhhhh.......but Dave,if everything is relative, as you atheists,secular humanists,freethinkers and other non-believers teach nowadays, then why are you complaining? In fact, you folks ought to be jumping up and down for joy because what happened in New York and Washington,D.C. was the logical outworking of your philosophy. If man is the measure of all things, then each man is free to develop his own ethical system, right? Well, this is Osama bin Laden's philosophy of life, that is to wipe the United States of America as well as the state of Israel off the face of the earth and to replace us with an Islamic "republic" worldwide. So, if you're right, bin Laden is quite justified in what he did, whether he did it for religious reasons or not. And yes, I still think that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light and that no one comes unto the Father but by Him. He never told us to go and blow up federal buildings or world trade centers or kill thousands of citizens, though. In fact, He told us to do just the opposite, to love even our enemies which, I must admit, is tough even for a Christian like me. But you're not really interested in the truth, are you? You're just interested in de-faming everyone who belongs to a particular religious faith based on the actions of a few malcontents because it justifies your stereotypical views of people of faith. And let me say here that I do not blame all Muslims for the attacks in New York and Washington a few weeks ago. I can respect those of the Muslim faith who hold to a sincere belief in the tenets of their faith. But I do not respect those who use religion (whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever) as an excuse for barbarous acts. I think that you need to face the fact that mankind is messed up inside, and the problem is with all of us, be believer or non-believer alike. The only difference between you and me is that I depend on my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to straighten me out when I screw up. You, on the other hand, say that you depend on your own human wisdom to straighten you out. I'd say that what we have just witnessed recently shows us that human wisdom is a very poor substitute for divine revelation.  
  
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   From:  Zebra30   10/1/2001 9:07 pm  
To:  el_natureboy unread  (26 of 26)  
 
  205.26 in reply to 205.15  
 
Oh come on, NatureBoy! What kind of pablum are you puking,huh? 
  
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